Forum studentów Stosunków Międzynarodowych na Uniwersytecie Wrocławskim :: Przegląd tematu

Jacob7132 · Wysłany: Czw 17:14, 18 Sty 2007 Temat postu: Tree

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Grzesiek · Wysłany: Śro 8:48, 29 Mar 2006 Temat postu:

Przyznaje wam racje. troche mnie ponosło co do tych zwrotów Smile

Jakub Bogucki · Wysłany: Wto 21:16, 28 Mar 2006 Temat postu:

Ja też uważam, że patriotyzm to nie kwestia "oddaj, co dostałeś". To pewne podejście do spraw kraju urodzenia. Raczej sentyment-uczucie-wartość, a nie sprawa rozliczeń.

Gospodarka i finanse nie należą do tematu. Patriotą jest się ze względu na tożsamość, kulturę i przywiązanie, a nie na podatki i dług wobec kraju.

Kamil Skibiński · Wysłany: Wto 20:15, 28 Mar 2006 Temat postu:

Trudno sie nie zgodzic z moim szanowanym przedmówcą szczególnie w kwestii edukacji jaką mi to panstwo rzekomo zapewniło. Moi rodzice płaca naprawde horendalne podatki i nie wiem dlaczego miałbym miec jakies wyrzuty zwiazane z tym, że ktos cos mi dawał za darmo a ja chce wyjechac itd. Powiem wiecej sam płace podatki od 2 lat wiec po częsci sam finansuje swoja nauke i mnie to bynajmniej nie przeszkadza!! Nie zgodze sie jednak z tym ze to jest za darmo!!
Od dziecka chodziłem na dodatkowe płatne lekcje języków (angielski Razz

) plus cała masę innych zajęc których darmowa szkoła nie mogła mi zapewnic.
Nawet do lekarza nie chodze "panstwowo" tylko prywatnie a u "panstwowego" stomatologa nie byłem nigdy w życiu - zawsze prywatnie!!

co do patriotyzmu to sie nie bede wypowiadał... z wiadomych względów...

dovbendov · Wysłany: Wto 18:15, 28 Mar 2006 Temat postu: do Grzesia

Miałem sie nie wypowiadać na temat patriotyzmu, ale jednak muszę odnieść się krótko do tekstu Grzesia. Tu cytuję:
"wkurza mnie jak ktos mówi, ze juz nie mozę sie doczekac żeby stąd wyjechać raz na zawsze. najpierw niech odda pieniadze jakie państwo w niego zainwestowało kształcąc go."
Ja nie planuję wyjazdu z tego kraju ("gdzie chodniki zarzygane i kible osrane") Smile

, ale nie wykluczam takiej możliwości. Tylko nie rozumiem, czemu miałbym cokolwiek temu państwu oddawać. Moja edukacja finansowana była i jeszcze ciągle jest z podatków płaconych przez moich rodziców. Panstwo nie dało mi jej za darmo. Czego nauczyłem się w szkołach? Pominę to milczeniem. Na pewno nie języków obcych, za które też płacili moi rodzice. Z całym szacunkiem dla Twojego patriotyzmu, ale nie muszę temu państwu nic oddawać. Jesli chciałbym to zrobić, to tylko i wyłącznie z pobudek moralnych.

Grzesiek · Wysłany: Nie 11:26, 26 Mar 2006 Temat postu:

I jeszcze jedno marku: nie odpowiadaj atakiem na atak. to ze krytykuje PIS nie oznacza ze jestem zwolennikiem platformy, SLD czy czegokolwiek innego. uwazam ze w polskiej polityce jest mnostwo brudu z kazdej strony. ja tylko nie podzielam tego co robi PIS tak samo jak nie podobało mi sie co robi SLD. broniąc sie pokaż co jest dobrego w PIS a nie co złego widzisz w platformie. wydaje mi sie ze to wszyscy widzimy. nie mówię ze jakaś inna partia rządziłaby lepiej. niech sobie rządzi PIS ale niech to robi dobrze. nie tłumacz sie tym że kiedyś i tak było gorzej. wtedy było też źle wiec o co chodzi, tak? to chyba nie na tym polega. patriotyzm tez nie na tym polega.

Grzesiek · Wysłany: Nie 11:19, 26 Mar 2006 Temat postu:

Marku ja o sobie i Ty o sobie mozesz mówić patriota! kazdy kto tak czuje ma prawo tak o sobie mówić. to czy inni beda tak o nas mówic to całkowicie odmienna sprawa. Pisząc moj wczesniejszy post nie miałem na myśli idealizowania UE, NATO czy czegokolwiek co mniej lub bardziej popieram. chodziło mi raczej o pokazania ze wejście do Unii było naszym dziejowym obowiązkiem, szansą i wyzwaniem. nie mowie ze konstytucja UE (jej projekt) jest dobry, nie mówie ze lubie eurokratów, europejskich socjalistów i innych. toleruje ich wszystkich uwazam ze polska powinna dbać o swój interes ale chyba łatwiej jest to robić bedąc w UE niż poza nią? moim zdaniem w debacie nad wstąpieniem do UE niektóre partie będąc jej zwolennikami chciały ugrać coś dla siebie (chociażby postawa PIS przed referendum - popieramy bo musimy ale...) ta niejednoznaczność niesłusznie wyniosła ich do miana obrońców polskości. poza tym boję się ze niedługo bede mógł powiedzieć o tej władzy tak: dobrymi chęciami piekło jest wybrukowane. dobre chęci marku to nie wszystko.co do miłosza to własnie prezentujesz ten stary typ patriotyzmu. otóż ja uważam, ze każdy kto przynosi sławę i dobre imię polski za granica (a tak przeciez czynił miłosz!) jest patriotą w dzisiejszym rozumieniu! sorry marek ale wydaje mi sie ze miłosz wiecej zrobił dal polski niz pani spod nowogródka (oczywiście tez jest patriotką itd)

marek s. · Wysłany: Sob 22:26, 25 Mar 2006 Temat postu:

Jeżeli chodzi o mówienie o kimś, że jest patriotą, to nie należy zbytnio tym słowem szastać. Inaczej słowo patriotyzm się zdezawuuje, jak stało sie z tyloma pięknymi słowami. Nie powinno sie według mnie nazywac patriotą pierwszego lepszego polityka,pisarza, poety, aktora, księdza. Sam fakt, że ktoś był w latach "80" w "S", to za mało, 10 mln. ludzi było. Niech nie zagarnia sobie tego pieknego slowa "patriota" działacz MW, czy jakiegokolwiek innego ugrupowania, który z koleszkami chleje wódę i zachowuje sie obscenicznie(Uogólniam oczywiście, ale niestety sa tacy). Po co na siłę obdarzać tym tytułem Miłosza, który ostentacyjnie wyśmiewał polskość, a o miano patrioty wcale nie zabiegał, ani słowem ani czynem?
Patriot(k)ą jest stara babcia pod Nowogródkiem, która mimo pięćdziesięciu lat okupacji, niszczenia wszystkiego, co polskie, zachowała mowę, zwyczaję, wiarę. Patrioci to siedmioosobowa rodzina spod Lubelskiego, która ukrywała Żydów w czasie II WW, za co została przez hitlerowców stracona. Patrioci to: Jan Paweł II, Kurier z Warszawy, ks. Popiełuszko i wielu innych przewaznie bezimiennych...

Co do UE: glosowałem za wstapieniem Pl do EU, ale to nie znaczy, że mam pisać panegiryki na cześć naszych przyjaciół zza Odry, Nysy i Alp. Nie oznacza to także, że nie moge skrytykować traktatu ustanawiajacego Konstytucje dla Europy (bo tak to się chyba nazywa). Nie nazywajcie idiotą lub oszolomem kazdego, którego poglądy są sprzeczne z waszymi wyidealizowanymi wizjami integracji europejskiej. Ja ufam bardziej pani premier Thatcher(choć jeszcze na liberalizm ekonom. sie nie nawróciłem), prezydentowi Klausowi, Kaczynskiemu niż panu Barrosso, Schroederowi czy Tuskowi i dobrze mi z tym. I nikt ,żaden euroentuzjasta ani euroidiota (to broń Boże nie o Was) nie ma prawa sie mnie czepiać.

Najbardziej denerwuje mnie, jak Polacy opluwaja imie Polski za granicą:
1 poprzez niemerytoryczną krytyke Polski, Polakow, polskich władz, (nieważne czy Wałęsę, Kaczyńskiego czy Geremka).
Takie rzeczy mozna robic ale w Polsce.
2. Tych, którzy zachowują sie za granica jak bydło:piją, biją, kradną.

Nie dokonałem jeszcze niczego takiego, bym mógł mówić o sobie, że jestem patriotą. Jestem dumny z Polski(choć osobiście bardzo nie lubię slowa:duma)! Pozdrawiam!

johnleehooker · Wysłany: Sob 15:24, 25 Mar 2006 Temat postu:

W pełni się zgadzam z Grześkiem. Dodam tylko, że patriotyzm nie zakłada całkowitego bałwochwalstwa. Krytyka narodu też jest patriotyzmem (vide Gombrowicz, Miłosz). Co do UE i NATO - Grzesiek ma stuprocentową rację. A ci, którzy wspominają o traconej suwerenności, nie wiedzą, co mówią. Zagrożeniem dla suwerenności jest globalizujący sie system światowy, a nie Unia Europejska. To właśnie poza Unią mielibyśmy tej suwerennosci mniej. Polecam eurosceptykom poczytanie paru autorów: choćby Ulricha Becka, Immanuela Wallersteina czy Josepha Stiglitza. Szczególnie Kaczorki mogliby w końcu zacząć coś czytać, nie tylko sondaże. Wiadomo, że nic nie jest 100% dobre (z wyjatkiem Chucka Norrisa), ale trzeba podejmować racjonalne decyzje i nie kierować się emocjami (przypomnijcie sobie Urgiela, który ma godność... Jezu).

Grzesiek · Wysłany: Sob 13:01, 25 Mar 2006 Temat postu:

Ja uwazam ze patriotyzm jest mi jedna z najbliższych wartosci. odróżniam jednak patriotyzm od nacjonalizmu i irytuje mnie gdy ktoś uwaza, ze w kwestii patriotyzmu ma więcej do powiedzenia niż ktoś inny. czasami wojujący ateista mozę być większym patriotą niż ultrakatolik z LPR. A co wiecej, często jest tak, że ci dumni patrioci - idioci z LPR itd przynoszą wiecej szkody swoim patriotyzmem niż pożytku. Co do historii to cóż.. byly wzloty i upadki ale jestem dumny z naszej historii i z naszego kraju. wkurza mnie jak ktos mówi, ze juz nie mozę sie doczekac żeby stąd wyjechać raz na zawsze. najpierw niech odda pieniadze jakie państwo w niego zainwestowało kształcąc go. jak wszyscy wyjadą to kto bedzie zmieniał ten kraj? zostawić go dla bandy oszołomów? nigdy w zyciu. socrates tak ale tylko na pół roku:P
Nie mozna zapominać że w dzisiejszym świecie pojecie patriotyzmu różni sie od tego w historii. nasi politycy chyba o tym zapominają. zwłaszcza ci z nurtu narodowego. Nie każdy musi sie ze mnązgadzać ale uważam że poparcie wejscia Polski do UE było w najnowszej historii Polski aktem najtrafniej rozumianego patriotyzmu i każdy kto patrzył na to inaczej jest albo idiotą albo nie wie i nie rozumie na czym polega dzis interes narodowy. nie każdy musi sie zgadzać oczywiscie. Chce tylko zauważyć, że jeszce nigdy w historii polska nie była tak bezpieczna jak dzis gdy jest w UE i NATO. to chyba o czyms świadczy.

Jakub Bogucki · Wysłany: Sob 11:33, 25 Mar 2006 Temat postu: Jestem dumny z Polski